Another for sale

[beng4]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lotus-11-West ... 2ed863dd5f

[jonclancy]

Locations a bit remote, and needs rebuilding, but could be a good project for someone.

I'm not sure if the starting price is a bit high, given the condition, but the interior alloy work looks good to me.

[bobwhittaker]

From chassis plate would presume this is year 83 chassis number 34 Plate shows as " 83 34 FR " with Midget VIN plate showing " HAN 8 / 52954 " .
From photographs ,front suspension uses the anti roll bar to form the top wishbone and the the interior shot shows the tunnel as purely formed sheet aluminium and there does not appear to be any chassis structure underneath the panels . Can anyone comment

[M400too]

No ideas was tempted to go for a look but did not want to appear like I was just a time waster but if it doesn't sell I may ask to go up as it's a couple of hours from me but if anyone down south is interested I could look I also have a pickup but no trailer if it got serious and bring it to edinburgh for anyone

[M400too]

Just checked and it's been ended by seller possibly after some advice or we may see it at a lotus specailist shortly for 20k

[Westfield 129]

The front suspension is a copy of the original Lotus 11 Series 2 or Lotus 7 Series 1, using the Spridget kingpin uprights.
Very early Westfield, probably before the front suspension was changed to differentiate the Westfield from the original Lotus, as Mr. Chapman was a little miffed and called the lawyers... Interesting car. I like it.

The tunnel is interesting as well. Hard to tell if there is no structure, and the tunnel cover looks a lot like the one I have in the alloy pile outside, that came out of my original Series 1 Lotus 7. The tunnel was steel in my 7, as it was in the 11s. It served to hold the LH and RH sides of the chassis together. It could have structure beneath, as the whole thing looks to be alloy, so there would have to be some supporting structure beneath.

The first series of Westfield 11's was a lot more like the original Lotus 11...

My car was also built in '83, but has the top, wide based wishbone and the center extension of the space frame.

[bobwhittaker]

One thing on this car that raises an issue with my car is the presence on this car of what would appear to be an official brass Westfield chassis plate as well as the VIN plate off the donor . This plate appears to show Year -- Chassis No. -- Initals ( presume these are the fabricator / welder) and an engine number . My car does not have the brass plate . instead there is a small welded on plate on the upper foremost transverse round chassis tube showing " WSC !23 " and initials are stamped onto the sheet aluminium panel where it is riveted to the upper transverse square tube that forms the cockpit , this not in view when the scuttle is in place . This concerns me slightly , I have spoken to another owner whose early car also lacks the brass plate and he has a theory that this plate might well have been owner produced as it shows the engine number which would only have been known from the donor and possibly not by Westfield when producing the kit .
JAN , can you add anything to this theory . I am not bothered about the car that is for sale , I am trying to identify the pedigree of my own vehicle.
Cheers Bob Whittaker

[Westfield 129]

Well, I don't think that there is a conspiracy.

I have seen lots of cars with both plates. Note that my brass plate (looks just like the one in the picture) is actually attached to toe bodywork, and not the chassis. I also have a Williams and Pritchard plate for the bodywork...

The last car I built had the donor car's VIN plate (as did all of the late chassis cars that I had rebuilt), and I riveted it to the chassis for DMV verification purposes. This is a common practice in countries (and states in the US) where the original donor car VIN is useful for registration. It can be removed, and the factory plate re attached, if necessary. I didn't attach the Westfield (now aluminum) black factory plate. with a factory stamped VIN.

Just about all the cars I have seen had both plates (early cars had brass ,late cars had the alloy black plate with a Westfield stamped chassis VIN). The last one I built had a Westfield plate with a US legal VIN#, but I didn't use it for registration. It resides with the documents that I gave to the new owner with the car. If you know where to look, the late production Westfield VIN is stamped into one of the top chassis rails. Anyway, having both plates on the car can be confusing, but it is not uncommon. Also, the plate may have been lost on some of the early cars, especially if they sat around for a few years before being built, or sold numerous times prior to the actual build.

My LHD car's original brass Westfield plate carries the VIN of the donor car, a Spridget with the usual "HAN" prefix., and that VIN is used for its registration. The plates of the early cars were blank, and generally, the dnoor car VIN was stamped in. My car was supposedly built in the UK, and carried the donor car's VIN. There is no donor car VIN plate at all.

The front top round chassis tube carries a small plate that is welded in place. It reads "W11 cc (maybe. Hard to read) 129". Just like yours. There are no numbers stamped into the alloy sheet metal.

Nowhere on the car is a manufacturing date or a fabrication date for the chassis. It is suspected that the car was built around '83, but there is no proof of anything really pertaining to the actual build date or builder of the car. Seriously, it is not clear that the cars were built in any numerical order at all.

Kit or component cars from prior to the 90s didn't have to carry a VIN. Most of the cars were registered (at least here in the US) as rebodied donor cars, using the old VIN. Here in CA, we have our "SB100" registration process, which is not difficult, but requires specific paperwork (easy to get online), and a visit to the "State BAR Referee" for a visual emissions inspection and the attachment of an "Exempt" sticker, eliminating any future emissions tests or inspections. It is a legal path to registering any "special construction vehicle", including the Noble M400s I prepped for the US distributor's press fleet.

As for your own car, you do have a chassis number plate welded up front. That pretty much takes care of the identity of the chassis. As the factory doesn't (or they say that they don't) have any records, they can't (or won't) verify any information about the early cars. Not even technical differences between the first 130 or so cars, and the 250 or so that have been built with steel floors. Fortunately, other than the welded floors and the length of the dampers, there are only detail changes between the late chassis and the early ones.

I am pretty sure that the car for sale is fine, and perhaps a very early model with Lotus-like single link upper arms and and anti sway bar/upper link.
And it has its proper, Westfield supplied data plate. And that early front suspension and chassis configuration.

I would love to see the car close up. Too bad that there is no one at Westfield that will say anything about the early cars...

[M400too]

Just a pity I could not get up to take pics as I was going to

[bobwhittaker]

JAN Thanks for the full and comprhensive response .
Bob Whittaker