Re: Potentially the end of the A series Eleven build....
Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:43 pm
I saw this, and am not entitely convinced until I see the whole of that Section removed in toto.
Here it is as a reminder:
Kit cars
4.10 Kit cars and reconstructed classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet WLTP, given that at present they are not required to meet NEDC or the latest EU standards. Instead they are tested to age-appropriate MOT standards, on the basis of the date of manufacture or first use of the engine.
4.11 We are proposing that for kit cars, compliance with the MOT emissions standards current at the date of registration will be required, despite the use of an older engine. In other words the current relaxation for emissions according to the age of the engine will no longer apply.
4.12 Reconstructed (restored) classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet the latest MOT standards, as long as the appearance of the vehicle is broadly unchanged and the engine is of the same capacity as that supplied with the vehicle when it was new.
4.13 When new vehicles were first required to be fitted with catalytic converters around 1992 (Euro 1 emissions standard), kit car makers typically used older engines which were not fitted with catalytic converters, hence the justification for age-appropriate testing of emissions based on date of engine manufacture or first use. The majority of the fleet is now vehicles up to 25 years old whose engines are fitted with catalytic converters, providing plenty of choice to the kit car builder.
Plenty to disagree with there, I think!
Here is the latest from CKC’s Facebook stream:
https://www.facebook.com/CKCMagazine/po ... 0948469545
We've just received a call from the Department for Transport confirming that they will not proceed with the part of the emissions regulation proposals that affected kit cars. There were over 2000 responses to the consultation.
A Department for Transport spokesperson said:
“The UK’s specialist vehicle industry is thriving – it creates jobs and gives enjoyment to many, with products exported all over the world.
“We are grateful to the over 2000 kit and replica car enthusiasts, manufacturers and suppliers who took part in this consultation. Following their responses, we have decided that there will be no changes to the current MOT–style testing of kit car emissions.”
Does this mean that the IVA emission test remains unchanged? Once I see that in writing, and 4.10-4.13 removed from the proposed legislation, I will be satisfied from a classic replica point of view.
Part of my response to the consultation:
...
The DVLA regulations allow for a classic car over 40 years old to be exempt from MOT testing. Presumably because this vanishingly small fleet of cars are, in general, well cared for, well-maintained, and drive only a handful of miles annually. The majority of this driving is out in the open country; emissions levels are negligible in the context of the UK’s road fleet.
...
Another, tiny, corner of an already small market is where Classic Replicas reside. These kits and scratch-built cars are replicas of historic vehicles, built using in-period parts. For example, you will not see an original Lotus 11 on the roads today. They are extremely rare and the car is worth well over £120K. However, it is possible to build a replica using the same period BMC engine/gearbox/axle and a modern chassis/body kit. I own one, and the interest and delight that it generates when I am motoring is very surprising. People love to see these cars on the road! The character of both the original and the modern evocation are defined by the engine used. It would be impossible to modify a 1950s BMC engine to meet 2019 emission requirements during IVA and MOT testing.
I am dismayed to read that, as a result of corporate fraud from major motor manufacturers fitting Defeat Devices to their cars to cheat emissions testing, the Government is proposing legislation that will directly affect the enjoyment of many thousands of people, cost them large sums of money, and financially ruin a niche industry.
The pollution caused by a tiny number of classic and historic replicas on British roads is negligible, and kit cars, historic replicas and the like should not be included in this proposal. Section 4 (reproduced below) should be expunged, and the legislation re-focussed on the main problem it was drafted to address. Section 4 does not allow for the construction and use of historic replicas and is flawed because if this. If a builder of a historic replica was forced to use a modern engine, it would ruin the character of the car and experience of driving it.
This section is also non-aligned with DVLA regulations regarding use of major components in a build. A modern engine with period components would result in a Q registration plate being placed on a historic replica. This is absurd.
Likewise, to expect a reconstructed classic to retain the same engine capacity as the original does not take into account the oversize reboring process during engine refurbishment. Will all historic engines need to be re-sleeved to standard bore, and at great expense? Should they be left with worn, polluting and inefficient standard bores? Clearly, the answer is to stipulate the original TYPE of engine. Engine capacity is irrelevant in this instance.
...
Does “Following their responses, we have decided that there will be no changes to the current MOT–style testing of kit car emissions.” mean that the current emission testing applied to BOTH IVA and MOT testing?
In summary: potentially great news. I would feel more comfortable if the question above was specifically answered. Al, to easy to leave a loophole to later use to restrict our construction and use of our cars. I.E. Status Quo, and let us get on with what we enjoy doing. It doesn’t detract from everyday motoring. Quite the opposite when you see how members of the public react to seeing our cars on the road.
Thoughts?
Here it is as a reminder:
Kit cars
4.10 Kit cars and reconstructed classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet WLTP, given that at present they are not required to meet NEDC or the latest EU standards. Instead they are tested to age-appropriate MOT standards, on the basis of the date of manufacture or first use of the engine.
4.11 We are proposing that for kit cars, compliance with the MOT emissions standards current at the date of registration will be required, despite the use of an older engine. In other words the current relaxation for emissions according to the age of the engine will no longer apply.
4.12 Reconstructed (restored) classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet the latest MOT standards, as long as the appearance of the vehicle is broadly unchanged and the engine is of the same capacity as that supplied with the vehicle when it was new.
4.13 When new vehicles were first required to be fitted with catalytic converters around 1992 (Euro 1 emissions standard), kit car makers typically used older engines which were not fitted with catalytic converters, hence the justification for age-appropriate testing of emissions based on date of engine manufacture or first use. The majority of the fleet is now vehicles up to 25 years old whose engines are fitted with catalytic converters, providing plenty of choice to the kit car builder.
Plenty to disagree with there, I think!
Here is the latest from CKC’s Facebook stream:
https://www.facebook.com/CKCMagazine/po ... 0948469545
We've just received a call from the Department for Transport confirming that they will not proceed with the part of the emissions regulation proposals that affected kit cars. There were over 2000 responses to the consultation.
A Department for Transport spokesperson said:
“The UK’s specialist vehicle industry is thriving – it creates jobs and gives enjoyment to many, with products exported all over the world.
“We are grateful to the over 2000 kit and replica car enthusiasts, manufacturers and suppliers who took part in this consultation. Following their responses, we have decided that there will be no changes to the current MOT–style testing of kit car emissions.”
Does this mean that the IVA emission test remains unchanged? Once I see that in writing, and 4.10-4.13 removed from the proposed legislation, I will be satisfied from a classic replica point of view.
Part of my response to the consultation:
...
The DVLA regulations allow for a classic car over 40 years old to be exempt from MOT testing. Presumably because this vanishingly small fleet of cars are, in general, well cared for, well-maintained, and drive only a handful of miles annually. The majority of this driving is out in the open country; emissions levels are negligible in the context of the UK’s road fleet.
...
Another, tiny, corner of an already small market is where Classic Replicas reside. These kits and scratch-built cars are replicas of historic vehicles, built using in-period parts. For example, you will not see an original Lotus 11 on the roads today. They are extremely rare and the car is worth well over £120K. However, it is possible to build a replica using the same period BMC engine/gearbox/axle and a modern chassis/body kit. I own one, and the interest and delight that it generates when I am motoring is very surprising. People love to see these cars on the road! The character of both the original and the modern evocation are defined by the engine used. It would be impossible to modify a 1950s BMC engine to meet 2019 emission requirements during IVA and MOT testing.
I am dismayed to read that, as a result of corporate fraud from major motor manufacturers fitting Defeat Devices to their cars to cheat emissions testing, the Government is proposing legislation that will directly affect the enjoyment of many thousands of people, cost them large sums of money, and financially ruin a niche industry.
The pollution caused by a tiny number of classic and historic replicas on British roads is negligible, and kit cars, historic replicas and the like should not be included in this proposal. Section 4 (reproduced below) should be expunged, and the legislation re-focussed on the main problem it was drafted to address. Section 4 does not allow for the construction and use of historic replicas and is flawed because if this. If a builder of a historic replica was forced to use a modern engine, it would ruin the character of the car and experience of driving it.
This section is also non-aligned with DVLA regulations regarding use of major components in a build. A modern engine with period components would result in a Q registration plate being placed on a historic replica. This is absurd.
Likewise, to expect a reconstructed classic to retain the same engine capacity as the original does not take into account the oversize reboring process during engine refurbishment. Will all historic engines need to be re-sleeved to standard bore, and at great expense? Should they be left with worn, polluting and inefficient standard bores? Clearly, the answer is to stipulate the original TYPE of engine. Engine capacity is irrelevant in this instance.
...
Does “Following their responses, we have decided that there will be no changes to the current MOT–style testing of kit car emissions.” mean that the current emission testing applied to BOTH IVA and MOT testing?
In summary: potentially great news. I would feel more comfortable if the question above was specifically answered. Al, to easy to leave a loophole to later use to restrict our construction and use of our cars. I.E. Status Quo, and let us get on with what we enjoy doing. It doesn’t detract from everyday motoring. Quite the opposite when you see how members of the public react to seeing our cars on the road.
Thoughts?