My inexpensive replacement oil has arrived for testing purposes.
Work has, unfortunately, pushed this pack to the weekend, but I hope to have the new sump trial fitted sometime then.
Winged Sump
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jonclancy
- Posts: 944
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:30 pm
Re: Winged Sump
I've checked the capacity of the winged sump vs a standard sump.
The winged sump holds a little over a litre more water than the standard sump.
I've given the winged sump a quick blow-over with some spray enamel to protect it. Once it is fitted and proven, this one will be off for soda-blasting and coating.
The rear rider-plate may, I think, be able to be replaced with a full-width sacrificial plate tack-welded into position. This plate will run from the front lip of the sump to the rear. You should be able to ride a speed-bump with this fitted - if you get unlucky. A standard sump would probably get very seriously damaged, or worse, in this case.
The winged sump holds a little over a litre more water than the standard sump.
I've given the winged sump a quick blow-over with some spray enamel to protect it. Once it is fitted and proven, this one will be off for soda-blasting and coating.
The rear rider-plate may, I think, be able to be replaced with a full-width sacrificial plate tack-welded into position. This plate will run from the front lip of the sump to the rear. You should be able to ride a speed-bump with this fitted - if you get unlucky. A standard sump would probably get very seriously damaged, or worse, in this case.
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jonclancy
- Posts: 944
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:30 pm
Re: Winged Sump
I've FINALLY found my conversion gasket set! Thought I had lost it...
One end seal is plastic, the other cork. Did I read somewhere that it's recommended to soak the cork gasket in oil? Can't remember, but will check the manual. I'll be using Hylomar Blue and only on the sump to gasket (to allow easy removal).
Jan's posting on page 2 is relevant - the new sump is 35mm shallower than stock. The old Max mark will be about 20mm from the bottom of the sump, so I expect a new max will need to be around 35mm higher to enable some oil depth but clear the crank. Might have to draw this all out to make it clearer.
I wrote:
My measurements are, in the main, referenced to the block face.
Dipstick tube length = 28mm (to allow measurement of max, min marks and dipstick length wrt the internal parts).
Max Mark = 110mm from block face.
Min Mark = 127mm from block face.
Dipstick end = 146mm from block face.
Crank High Point = 70mm from block face.
Pick up pipe filter mesh "bowl" top = 165mm from block face.
Pick up filter bottom edge = 120mm from block face. As you can see, running on MIN oil level will expose some of the oil pick up filter.
One end seal is plastic, the other cork. Did I read somewhere that it's recommended to soak the cork gasket in oil? Can't remember, but will check the manual. I'll be using Hylomar Blue and only on the sump to gasket (to allow easy removal).
Jan's posting on page 2 is relevant - the new sump is 35mm shallower than stock. The old Max mark will be about 20mm from the bottom of the sump, so I expect a new max will need to be around 35mm higher to enable some oil depth but clear the crank. Might have to draw this all out to make it clearer.
I wrote:
My measurements are, in the main, referenced to the block face.
Dipstick tube length = 28mm (to allow measurement of max, min marks and dipstick length wrt the internal parts).
Max Mark = 110mm from block face.
Min Mark = 127mm from block face.
Dipstick end = 146mm from block face.
Crank High Point = 70mm from block face.
Pick up pipe filter mesh "bowl" top = 165mm from block face.
Pick up filter bottom edge = 120mm from block face. As you can see, running on MIN oil level will expose some of the oil pick up filter.
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jonclancy
- Posts: 944
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:30 pm
Re: Winged Sump
Here's a progress update:
If you think this'll be a 30 min job done on axle stands - think again!!
After seven hours of lying on my back on the garage floor with my nose 1cm away from the sump, I can assure you that you will be better off using a car lift and transmission jack (or similar).
I've got the sump dry-fitted with no gaskets. The oil drain needs to move as it will be fouled by the clutch slave cylinder if you wanted to empty the oil, and the backplate bottom bolts will beed to be reversed to allow clearance. Not a huge list for the first test-fit, I hope you'll agree.
I removed the dipstick pipe and anticipate it'll need to be shortened by about 30mm.
I'm going to get the car off the axle stands this morning and clean up the garage - I'm away with work for the next week or so, thus a small haitus.
I'll add some pics so you can see the improvement in ground clearance for yourself.
If you think this'll be a 30 min job done on axle stands - think again!!
After seven hours of lying on my back on the garage floor with my nose 1cm away from the sump, I can assure you that you will be better off using a car lift and transmission jack (or similar).
I've got the sump dry-fitted with no gaskets. The oil drain needs to move as it will be fouled by the clutch slave cylinder if you wanted to empty the oil, and the backplate bottom bolts will beed to be reversed to allow clearance. Not a huge list for the first test-fit, I hope you'll agree.
I removed the dipstick pipe and anticipate it'll need to be shortened by about 30mm.
I'm going to get the car off the axle stands this morning and clean up the garage - I'm away with work for the next week or so, thus a small haitus.
I'll add some pics so you can see the improvement in ground clearance for yourself.
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jonclancy
- Posts: 944
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:30 pm
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jonclancy
- Posts: 944
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:30 pm
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biggles
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:10 am
Re: Winged Sump
I would say that you have the same ground clearance there as I have with my dry sump xflow....
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jonclancy
- Posts: 944
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:30 pm
Re: Winged Sump
Morning All,
I've had the sump back from being powder-coated for a few days now, but have been pretty tied up. I'll get some photos taken. The interior needs to be sanded to remove any remnants of media. I'm probably going to get this one soda-blasted, so that can just be washed away (and use that method ONLY) on the production run. I don't like the idea of specks of blast media being bonded coated to the inner surface and then have to remove it!
It looks excellent. The next move is to get the car over to the workshop and get the sump fitted and road-tested to prove oil delivery under G-loading etc. Then we can finalise numbers for the run.
This'll be a one-time-only organise for me - I can't afford to keep (m)any cassettes in stock, and I certainly don't have the time to offer this as a service in the future, but the design will be finalised and one-offs will probably still be available. Just without the economies of scale.
Edit to add that we have moved the drain-plug to the forward of that panel it's on (to clear the clutch slave cylinder when draining). Also, on the prototype, we have taken a sliver out of the rear-nearside end to clear the chassis rail. The production run will just move the casette over by a few mm.
I've had the sump back from being powder-coated for a few days now, but have been pretty tied up. I'll get some photos taken. The interior needs to be sanded to remove any remnants of media. I'm probably going to get this one soda-blasted, so that can just be washed away (and use that method ONLY) on the production run. I don't like the idea of specks of blast media being bonded coated to the inner surface and then have to remove it!
It looks excellent. The next move is to get the car over to the workshop and get the sump fitted and road-tested to prove oil delivery under G-loading etc. Then we can finalise numbers for the run.
This'll be a one-time-only organise for me - I can't afford to keep (m)any cassettes in stock, and I certainly don't have the time to offer this as a service in the future, but the design will be finalised and one-offs will probably still be available. Just without the economies of scale.
Edit to add that we have moved the drain-plug to the forward of that panel it's on (to clear the clutch slave cylinder when draining). Also, on the prototype, we have taken a sliver out of the rear-nearside end to clear the chassis rail. The production run will just move the casette over by a few mm.
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Splat
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:12 am
Re: Winged Sump
Just a small point Jon. I always understood that the drain plug was sited where it is to aid the scavenging of as much old oil as possible during an oil change. With a warm engine (and therefore less viscose oil) the front of the car is jacked (allowing better access to the plug) and the oil drains from the rear of the sump. Moving the drain to the front of the sump would require the back of the car to be raised and not ease either access or the positioning of a suitable receptacle for the oil.
What's your thoughts on moving the plug to the rear underside of the sump. Easy access with the front jacked, better scavenging and, judging from your photos, very unlikely to strike the tarmac. (My full-depth sump rarely strikes, and when it does it's invariably the leading edge.)
My other query concerns the actual fitting. You've done it once already so; how much of a pain is the winged sump to fit in situ given that the bolts are now shrouded from direct access by the wings?
What's your thoughts on moving the plug to the rear underside of the sump. Easy access with the front jacked, better scavenging and, judging from your photos, very unlikely to strike the tarmac. (My full-depth sump rarely strikes, and when it does it's invariably the leading edge.)
My other query concerns the actual fitting. You've done it once already so; how much of a pain is the winged sump to fit in situ given that the bolts are now shrouded from direct access by the wings?