Westfield Elevens

Hi,


My name is Greg Guille.

Thanks to the admins for the acceptance on the forum.



I'm looking to build a Westfield Eleven for track days and so on. I live on Guernsey with it's 25mph speed limits so a road version is of no interest to me.

I'm looking forward to seeing how people have adapted the design from the basic kit.

Any suggestions as to people to speak to with regard to any racing versions out there would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Greg,

Welcome!

You will find all the answers you need here! Try a search, but I am sure that one of the racers, developers or some other miscreant like Splat will be along soon!

What sort of spec are you looking at? 1293? 1380? Natural, blown? Straight cut box? More Lotus-like or Caterham Modern?

They’re going to love you in Guernsey!

Here I am !

Hi Greg,

And welcome to the group. As Jon says, there’s a wealth of useful knowledge here. Several members have built and registered cars within the last few years and several more are in build. There are a few f us who have owned our cars for some considerable time. But I don’t think that there’s a single car here that’s actually “finished”; there’s always one more upgrade to try!

Actually, having spent many summer weeks on the Bailiwick of Guernsey, I can’t think of a car better suited to your roads in the summer!! Built it road legal and register it! It'll also make it far more marketable when you do eventually decide to sell it on.....

Looking forward to hearing what you’re going to build and then reading all about the process.

Best regards,

Simon

[attachment=0]P4290141.JPG[/attachment]


Thanks for the welcome!


Well, here's the thing.

I have been building cars for a while.

I've attached an image of something I'm assembling right now. It is a scratch built 7, with Lotus 37 racing car front suspension


Once this is done, I want to build a Replica of a Lotus 15/17


The Westfield 11 has exactly the right feel and look for what I would like to build.


Oh, I would be building my intended project with a Rover V8

So V8 engine, Ford T5 gearbox and narrowed MGB GT Tube axle with the car sitting on 15" Wire wheels.
It would primarily be for track days and to display.

UK motorsport regulations would mean that it would need a ridiculous roll cage so that is a non starter.


Does this sound like a good idea? I've spoken to Westfield about the Idea and they seem to be supportive.

I have been in contact with someone from Guernsey (a Guernsanian?) who built a Westfield XI. He sold the car in 2016 because, as you quite rightly state, the speed limits are very limited.

If you PM me I can give you his contact details so you can talk to him directly.

Yes, mostly 25 mph, some 35mph limits and some 15 mph in the countryside lanes!



I've been making inquiries and have been disappointed to learn that Westfield as a company are very lacking in delivery and customer service.

Of the four people I have spoken to, as one voice, they have said that the product is excellent and the customer service was appalling!

The supply of a complete kit is a fantasy!


Given that I do not live in England and travel to the UK is very expensive at over £1000 to come over with a van to collect a kit, I think I may have to look at an alternative to buying a kit from Westfield.


Any thoughts?

Ok, I'll bite.

I have built a few of these, and have documented one build extensively, a RHD Westy with a 1380 and a CR 5 speed with a TranX LSD, 15" wheels and period correct Dunlop vintage race tires, right from the crate. This particular W11 was the 6th that I had experience with, and included everything that I had learned from my Westfield experiences, including the full reconstruction of my own 1380/LSD Westfield hot rod. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/wes ... 1241634081
By way of comparison, my stable has included a Lotus 7 Series 1 (the car that was developed from the 11 "club"), Renault R5 Turbo 2 (I restore these for a living), Noble M400 (built the US press demo car), Morgan +8, and a bunch of other stuff, which includes everything from Alfa to Porsche, and a bunch of bikes (MV, Ducati, Laverda, Moto Guzzi, AJS/Matchless).

You want to install a Rover V8? In a Westfield chassis? Ok... Got it. I have a Rover V8 in my Morgan +8. Not unfamiliar. Mine's got a big dumb 4bbl and headers. Maybe 180 HP weighing about 1900 lbs. For comparison, my Westy has a 1380 spridget with 125 HP, weighing 1070 lbs. Guess which one is faster...
Stick a V8 into the Westfield, it gets a bunch heavier... This will underline several problems with the suspension as it is in the chassis present form. These problems are not so problematic with a light engine up front, and around 125 HP, but would be prominent problems with 180~300 HP. And, the chassis precise balance would be destroyed. As it stands, the Westfield W11 is properly balanced, and underpowered only by around 50 HP (unless you have a built 1380 or an X Flow, and even then, the X Flow is a bit heavy. Building cars is not like sorting an ill handling, front heavy contraption. Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Why not start with a Westfield "Seight"? Then adapt the body to fit?
If you try to do the regular Westfield chassis, with a narrowed MG rear end, you will find that the suspension won't work (the rear arms are a bit short, the suspension travel a bit limited and, well, a balance problem. Then there is the room for the tires (vs. the frame and fully enclosed body work).

And... The lovely Costin designed body will be ruined by the modification to the front clam, and then... Cooling! My Morgan is challenged in this area, and if you try to put a larger radiator in the lithe Westfield/Lotus 11 front clam shell... I can already smell the coolant. Yes, I corrected both the Westy cooling problems that we have on the West Coast of California, and the Morgan's fear of high temps. I know what this is about.

I am not against doing engine swaps, but some cars are better served by a swap than others.

Lets take the Seight. Suppose you build a light weight S type Westy with, maybe a 230 HP Duratec? You save a lot of weight. Perhaps more than enough to offset the extra 50 HP you might get from a Seight (with an expensive engine build), and you would have a much better balanced car. One that would be easier to drive, just as fast, and one that you could drive faster, rather than having a car that might be "faster".
And if you put a V8 into a W11, what are you going to use for a tire? 5.00X15 rears? 4.50X15 fronts? Those are the ones that fit...

For the money you will spend to build this Rover V8 powered hot rod, you could build a Chevy LS6 V8 Miata (MX5, to you) that would be faster, better engineered, with better suspension, better weight distribution and have a proper kit to work with. Just talking here...

Or a Noble M400, a car that in my own experience, is perhaps the most capable sports car on earth, even considering the the newest is about 10 years old. Oh, and it only has a V6 Duratec with a couple of turbochargers. Faster than just about anything. Still...

I understand what you are trying to do, and appreciate the effort involved. It is just that this W11 chassis would need so much work, and none of it would fit beneath the lovely coachwork. What is the point? Nobody to fool with that, which is the best part of the engine swap strategy, right?

My little W11, lightened about as far as I can take it, will stick with a Subaru WRX past 100 mph in a drag race. That's surprising. And it still sounds like a Spridget.

I think that the idea of taking a Seight and perhaps putting a Westy 11 body on it sounds pretty cool. It would be the entry to building a Lotus 15 replica, which is something that we have wanted for years (as it has the IRS and a nice hood blister to hide many different types of DOHC 4s. But, if you stick to tires that fit beneath the bodywork, what are you going to do with all that power?

There are a lot of factors to consider here. For what you want to do, I am thinking that you really want a different kit to start with. If you are thinking of the W11 because it is beautiful, note that if you put a largish V8 up front, blister the hood, put larger front tires on it (eliminating the enclosed front wheels, an 11 visual treat) and cut up the rear to fit the larger tires that the extra power would require will leave you with a different car that you may have imagined.

Hi Westfield 129

Firstly, thanks very much for the clearly carefully considered observations. I really appreciate your perspective on this.

I have learned through my life that the best value experience is often "From another persons viewpoint" as they are not caught up in your own ideas !

My own motivation for looking at this is based on having seen a Lotus 15 equipped with a Buick V8 at the Hillclimb at Chateau Impney, in Worcester, England. The car was competing against similar period cars and driven my Mrs Sarah Thorne, was "Up there" in the top times throughout the entire meeting. The car was in the open paddock and I was able to take a few photographs of the general arrangement. I believe that the car had previously held to track record for the event in the hands of Mrs Thornes husband. This had been recently eclipsed by a rear engine big block "Lola" Can-am car.

Speaking to http://www.johnealesroverv8.co.uk/ I have ascertained that a 200 hp engine would be priced about £3000 pounds sterling all in, and would provide reliable power with an expected life of about 400,000 miles give or take. The Ford Mustang T5 gearbox is the lightest transmission option with the British Leyland LT77 gearbox being a heavier option.

At this stage, this is all talk! I'm just evaluating the general scope of issues with the idea, as opposed to rushing over to Westfield UK with my cheque book open!

The main issue for me is that the A Series engine, leaves me cold. I agree that the "look" would be correct, but I don't find it something to inspire me. Remembering of course, that this is NOT for any kind of competitive motorsport.


Anyway thanks again for the input, I really appreciate it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VATqssKA89I

This was the car that got me thinking.

Here are a few more images from a number of different angles.