Magnificent W11 Sold In US

[Westfield 129]

Paul's incredible W11 was sold in the US for its asking price.

This car is a late RHD kit, with twin master cylinder brakes, 4130 front spindles, Protech double adjustable dampers, 1380 with fuel injection, T9 CR box, 15" wire wheels with Dunlop vintage racing tires, TranX LSD, Peter May axles, custom alloy double pass radiator and much more. No garage queen, the car was driven weekly (we can do that in So Cal) and has been reliable and vey quick. Most of the parts content in this car was new production.
The price was near £30,000.

It sold in less than one month.

Paul has a new Lotus 23 on the way. So far, the rear uprights and the front spindles and hubs have been delivered. Waiting on the big box...

[gbilawsky]

Hi Folks,

I'm the guy who bought Paul's car. Although I appreciate W129s enthusiasm for the car, I prefer to stick strictly to bare facts on car forums. First, the car did not sell for full price, or anywhere near 30,000 British Pounds. Paul is an exceptional engineer and did invest a great deal of cash, time and effort to make this a very viable car. However, I could hardly call it "magnificent". The mechanical work Paul did provided an excellent taking off point, but there is much work to be done:

The fiberglass work is substandard, with ripples. spider cracks and mold marks easily seen. The interior carpet kit is faded and will be completely removed. I intend to polish the bare aluminum interior tub. There is a small hole cut in the hood to clear the injection unit...with electrical tape over it. A scoop will be installed before the total repaint. The shoulder harnesses were relocated, leaving four ragged openings behind the seats. The tires are worn and badly cupped. The wire wheels have never been tightened or trued. Numerous oil leaks need to be addressed. The injection system installed was off a motorcycle and needs reworking to provide a workable throttle. The windscreen is cracked. Fortunately, a new one was already sourced, but not installed yet. Overall, I have a substantial project on my hands to get this car to 100%.

The car is getting the body removed next week to have the fiberglass repaired, completely faired, and a total repaint in aluminum/silver. The underside if the body will also be semi-faired and painted in aluminum. The chassis is at Eagle Racing and all of the mechanical issues are being tended to. Once it's back together, the interior (dash, seats, back panel) will be repaired and recovered in fresh red leather. I see 2-3 months of work and a substantial investment before this car will be able to be called "magnificent."

I'll keep the forum updated on progress and post pictures when complete.

Best,

[jonclancy]

Firstly, Welcome!

Please do update with pics as the work progresses. The more the merrier.

Good luck with the renovation.

[Westfield 129]

Well, the car was driven a lot, so the interior carpets faded. Not unusual. They all do that.

The body was never refinished, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the way that it drives.

If you are really serious, get rid of the drop seat pans. Then you don't need to do anything beneath the car but fill in the drive shaft tunnel if you feel that it is necessary. The seat pans reduce the ground clearance, and if you are at the track and choose to run over a curbing, well, occasionally the pan drop section might catch, and that puts quite a bump on the base of your spine...

And, don't be too hot on running the car too low. The front suspension needs to be level with the pavement with the driver in the car, and the rear needs to be a couple of inches higher to get some suspension travel with the longer dampers.

Oil leaks on that particular car emanate from the pan end gaskets, and the transmission main seal, which I installed without a sealer around the seal. This may result in a small drip occasionally.

The engine doesn't have a rear main seal. It has a spiral slinger, which works quite well, and is precision fitted, as the clearances were set when the block was blueprinted (line bored, and the deck height set). Whatever you do, DO NOT INSTALL A REAR MAIN SEAL KIT. This will be a disaster, and your engine will become a lovely device for coating roads, and your garage floor with a protective oil film (see, the crank flange was never meant to be a sealing surface, and there is no way to get the oil back into the engine. so it ends up squirting out from the minimal crank flange runout and thrust clearance)...Oh, and you can't put it back, as the block will have to be precision line bored again to set the clearances (I have done half a dozen...). The standard slinger can weep occasionally, but it doesn't leave drips. Drips come from the pan end seals on your engine. The engine never leaked until the pan was replaced with the special baffled pan. Pay special attention to the corners of the crank bearing seals front and rear. A dab of RTV or Hondabnd should do it.

The trans seal? I probably would not bother until the clutch is replaced. Coat the seal edges with Hondabond when it is reinstalled.

Use the same on the differential pinion seal if it leaks.

As for the fuel injection, it really is not designed for a motorcycle. It is a proper throttle body system, witch is all that would work with the siamese intake ports. The throttle body is a little large, though. The plan was to make a smaller venturi behind it to speed up the air when the throttle was wacked open, eliminating the flat spot.

I am thoroughly happy with the weber, and if you want a weber solution for that engine, I have one that works on a 6" "flat" maniflow intake. Just start with a new Caburetor purchased from APT so that we can get the right internals to start with. I can specify a working jet setup that should be sharp on that engine.

The wheels I never dealt with. They are Dayton, and I have never had great luck with them. I didn't do the last alignment on the car in person. I doubt that they need to be tightened, as they don't have many miles on them, and the car that they are on weighs less than half the weight of the cars that they are designed for. If they need truing, then they need it. But only because they came from Dayton as potato chips...

Make sure that the front A arm bushings are not tight, and that the anti sway bar is set in place AFTER the alignment is done and the car is still blasted. That should cure the tire cupping. I am sure that the king pins may need a shot of grease as well.

All of this goes under the heading of normal maintenance. Nothing really wrong with the car at all.

It really is an exceptional car, properly set up, with an excellent equipment list and a high build quality. Outside of the other three duplicates of that car, none drive better.

[gbilawsky]

The improvements and repairs on my Eleven are progressing nicely: (PIctures attached)

Body is off and the doors had their first sanding, fairing and primer. This sequence will be done twice before painting. The rear bodywork and scuttle has been repaired and sanded. 1st coat of fairing primer is next. We sourced a small scoop to cover the hole that was cut into it with electrical tape put over it over to clear the fuel injection throttle body.

The seats, dash, headrest are in for re-upholstery. Once out of the car and inspected....well, let's just leave it that it won't be hard to improve on the existing workmanship of the initial installer.

The fiberglass bulkhead behind the seats and all of the plastic wheel well liners are being remade in aluminum. I should be able post some photos of those within the next 10 days.

We are finding a multitude of mechanical issues:

The entire front end needs to be completely re-bushed. I have 3/8" of play in the left front and 1/4" in the right. The bushings were not installed correctly. The ears on the suspension arms should have been clearanced with washers or spacers. Instead they were just bent in until they contacted the bushings, so there isn't even pressure against the perimeter of the bushing surface. Most have distorted and worn prematurely. Until we disassemble the front end, we won't know if the holes in the suspension arms have elongated from the wear. They amount of play we have indicates that's probably the case. I am hopeful we can dodge this bullet.

We pressure tested the cooling system and found four leaks. We found that oil was surging out of the dipstick hole and the breather in the front of the engine. "O" rings solved the dipstick issue and we are re-plumbing the breather assembly. We will be getting to the other leak sources next. We will also be doing a compression test and leak down on the engine this week. The condition of the engine oil gives us some concern about the internals. We have found a solution to the weak motorcycle throttle return spring...that was the only easy part. The wheels have been trued and new Dunlop rubber is mounted and balanced.

We stripped out the carpet kit and removed all possible panels for polishing outside the car. With the amount of double-sided velcro tape that was used in this car, you would think it was a structural element. Goo Gone and lacquer solvents wouldn't touch it. We've resorted to paint remover for epoxy finishes to get it off to avoid scraping and marring the aluminum any further. What a time consuming, pain in the butt this has been.

For your viewing pleasure, I have also put up a few photos of a Jaguar D type that came into the shop since I delivered the Eleven to them. If you look behind the Jag, you can also see my maroon Lola T70 on a lift. We are doing a suspension mod in the front and changing gear ratios out back.

[gbilawsky]

More Photos....

[Westfield 129]

It's not necessary to shim the suspension bushings into position. It is necessary to inspect them to see if the center has been ripped out of the rubber, usually due to over torque. The bushings have to be allowed to rotate, or the suspension will have far too much friction, and the bushings, actually vibration isolators, will rip apart.

Not likely that the bushings were "improperly installed". They get press fitted into the suspension arms, and bolted to the chassis. Not much to do wrong. The initial fit is always uniform from car to car. The design called for the suspension bolts to be installed, and torqued. Smart builders will torque so that the suspension arm can move smoothly.

Shimming would be OK, but probably a lot more work than is necessary. I have assembled several of these cars, and have found that the suspension mount tabs are always the right distance apart. If, as you say, the tabs are bent... It is easy to check by sliding a bushing into place. If it fits, no reason to shim. The design is much like a lot of the 50s sport racers. Tighten the bolts and go. You can shim if you want, but there would be no advantage to be had in reduced wear, or increased precision. Been there, done that... My personal car, without any shimming at all, has about 60K miles on it. Major suspension inspection coming next month, as I am installing new spindles and king pins. New bushings as well. However, no problems with the handling or the braking. Spot on, as usual, and the alignment is right were it should be.

Your car had a very tight suspension after its initial build. The car also has had quite a bit of mileage on it (for a W11), as it was driven quite often. The bushings may have been worn (these parts are not usually long lived. I always keep about 20 spares around). The front suspension had not been inspected (disassembled) for more than 4 years. In any case, rebuilding of the front end is easy, and the bushings are inexpensive.

I had driven the car in the last couple of months prior to its sale, and the steering, suspension and braking were quite good. If there were the amount of play you describe, there would have been a pull under braking, and the steering would have shown some lack of precision, as well as a prominent pull in the chassis. But, age is age. If I took delivery, I would have replaced every bushing in the car. I consider this to be normal maintenance. Don't forget to shoot grease into the kin pins, too.

And, occasionally, check the torque on the front and rear suspension bolts.

Replacing every suspension bushing in the car is something I recommend for any newly purchased, previously assembled Westfield. Age and use deteriorate the bushings, and most have been over tightened at some point, usually during the initial build.

Proper torque for the front suspension, shimmed or not, should be around a rotational torque reading from the suspension bolt of 5~7 lb.ft. This allows the entire bushing/isolator to rotate, and gives the suspension the ability to move, without immediately destroying the bushing/isolator. Always install a new Nyloc nut, and stick with grade 8 bolts, or use AN Aircraft bolts of the proper grip length, drilled for a cotter pin and a castle nut. Same stuff you would use on your T70.

Not likely that there would be a problem with elongation of the suspension mount holes. The center rubber of the bushing will fail long before the steel would wear.

[gbilawsky]

W129, (sorry to keep calling you a number, but I can't identify your name)

Thank you for your comments and recommendations, but I trust my mechanics implicitly. I have seen the issues they have identified first-hand, and I agree with their diagnosis and solutions. I am, frankly, surprised you could have missed the vibration in the front-end and through the steering column. The shop owner picked up on it during a shake-down drive from the passenger seat. The condition of the car in front of us just doesn't correlate with your posts describing its status. Please don't take this as being argumentative. The facts are: I knowingly bought a used car with cosmetic and mechanical issues (all used cars have them to varying degrees), and I will simply have them all resolved.

We will continue down the path of refurbishing the car until it achieves our own personal standards of finish and build quality, which I understand may be higher than others may desire or deem necessary, particularly for a replica. These folks take pride in perfection...and, that is exactly why I use them to maintain my collection.

I'll post pictures when we complete the project.

Best,

Glenn

[gbilawsky]

Progress Update:

The interior has been completely polished and seats and dash are reupholstered.
New removable floor mats were made to protect the polished panels.
Fabricated, polished and installed aluminum edge trim.
Installed new aluminum back panel to replace tattered carpet.
Body is repaired, faired, block-sanded by hand twice between primer coats, and ready for paint. Hopefully, temperatures will rise enough in Texas to take that on next week.
Received a new complete chassis bushing set by DHL yesterday from Westfield in UK. They now have them back in stock. Fabricated our own bushing spacers for upper A arms to eliminate deformation of brackets
All coolant and oil leaks have been addressed and new fluids in place.
Wire Wheels are tightened, trued and balanced with new Dunlops aboard.
Exhaust system and muffler is out for new ceramic coating.
New throttle return spring system installed to alleviate hypersensitive throttle on motorcycle fuel injection
Installed clutch pedal stop
New wheel wells fabricated from aluminum are complete and ready for installation.
Single cockpit body work on order from Westfield

Pictures of interior attached....should be done by Christmas.

Glenn

[Westfield 129]

'Love the alloy rear bulkhead. I am thinking of doing that on my own car. I have just stripped out the 30 year old carpet and I am contemplating my next move. Polish, or some diamond stitched upholstery on the tunnel... I just cut a new dash panel as well. You are an inspiration...

Your car is looking good.

Often, dealing with kit car companies may not result in immediate gratification, and that can cause occasional frustration. That said, you have had pretty good luck in getting the parts you wanted in pretty short order. Gavin always comes through. Now, if they can do the single seat bodywork for my LHD chassis.

I was never really enamored with the fuel injection on your car, even though it worked better than any of the others I have tried. The throttle body is a little large (hmm, a lot large)... Perhaps a machined venturi behind it would help with the low end, wide open throttle, response. Given that small problem, the thing works pretty well. The A series breathes only two cylinders at a time (less than 700cc total), so a little carburetor goes a long way. The "motorcycle" throttle body is nearly twice the size of the venturis of a 45 DCOE throat, properly sized for the cam and compression of your engine. Great for top end power, though. The system might respond favorably to a longer intake manifold.

The cylinder head could use a bit more port work as well. My cylinder heads from Longman have 37.5mm ports, bored straight through, with smoothing down stream at the bulkhead between the valves. The APT head you have is quite efficient, though. Excellent low end response.

The spring might help with the throttle sensitivity, but the throttle linkage ratio is the real problem. You may have to re work the linkage to slightly slow the response, and then get another joint in your ankle to get full throttle... Most of us just get used to the throttle response. It takes a few miles of driving, but it's not that hard to do. 'Better than corrective ankle surgery...

When you put the chassis back together, you can mount the double adjustable Protechs upside down to ease chassis setup, and keep the adjusters and spring collars clean and easy to reach for adjustment and corner weighting.

Nice job.